After my "lovely" exchange yesterday with a group of poison pen bullies and their supporters it dawned on me I fell for the okey doke. I saw the abnormal, caustic, dysfunctional behavior of several black men up close and did not immediately turn away. I thought I could have a reasonable conversation with the equivalent of psychopaths. Although we were discussing one writer's column insulting a tennis champion it was really about how some black men just want to bash black women (some they don't even know) for pleasure. What normal man does that? The answer is: that's not the normal behavior of a man. I will not make that same mistake again. At least I hope not. It's funny how trying to be social, reasoned and an otherwise normal woman who connects with other human beings can lead you astray.
Just like I made this "one time exception" and watched the network that wants to "destroy black people". I almost didn't make it out of the Vortex of Coonery. We all know that BET Awards show was an absolute disgrace. Yet people are still talking about it. Thus they are still engaged in supporting it on some level. Or tied to it somehow. It's a "black" network and we're black people. The idea of cutting off things and people where we think parts of our identity may be tied to is difficult. We're looking in the wrong place if we're trying to connect based on race. That's the Civil Rights/We Be Struggling/Women Lift Everybody Up BS some of us have been indoctrinated with. Yet it's a trick. We may long for a cultural tie because it helps complete us socially. Perhaps we will have to accept the fact that discussing how some of our ancestors were enslaved and the shared affinity for music/art is all we really have in common and stop trying to force a deeper meaning into our interactions. It's the wolf in Little Red Riding Hood who disguised his voice as the grandmother so he could devour her. It's the Siren's call that led entire ships of human cargo to be destroyed.
I don't like to make blanket statements about a group of men who may share a similar skin shade or phenotype being toxic so I almost got sucked into the insanity of fools. I like to think I can separate individuals from behaviors and properly distance myself from the dysfunctional. I dealt with some internet Ike Turners very patiently, but my patience has been expended. It's bordering me flipping the bird and calling it a day. Meaning writing off the majority and calling it a day. I'm not going to expend my energy "looking harder for the decent ones". Why aren't all of these "decent ones" looking for me (and other black women of substance) to reassure us they're not like those fools over in the corner? How many are they - and most importantly - do they outnumber the zombies so we won't become the undead? Am I to travel highways and byways, look under rocks, develop some "non-damaged, non-colorist, confident black man who doesn't despise other black women" call? I'm not a bird! There's no secret handshake I should have to give to be let into some exclusive club.
Of course I already know there are plenty of decent men out there. Thank goodness. Otherwise I'd be writing a post about ALL black men are _____ and I'd be done. The end. That's not a solution either, but I can understand why it seems like a viable response. It immediately solves the problem, but we can't torch the building and walk away. Some of those embers might travel and destroy other areas. I also know there are some damaged women as well. They're usually supporting those men. By the way no one ever ADMITS they're damaged beyond recognition either. They tell you it's your fault or that you're just being sexist or your standards or too high or they don't understand where you're coming from or you have no credibility. Some who know better are actual fence-sitters watching the mayhem but not doing anything to stop it. They get awfully worked up at the mere MENTION of dysfunctional behavior that they attribute to others but never themselves. So if it isn't about you, then why are you upset?
It's made for some interesting blog posts though. In order to be a fully functioning and thriving woman though you (and I) should only be spending time with other normal people who are life-affirming and at the very least know how to behave in public.
As another astute blogger noted when God told Lot and his family to leave Sodom & Gomorrah He warned them not to look back. Lot's wife didn't listen. As a kid I used to laugh at the concept of a woman literally turning into a pillar of salt not recognizing the symbolism. It was very telling that it was a woman who looked back. Meaning she probably had some relatives left who were still in debauchery mode drinking, laughing and having a good time. Or perhaps some were just hanging out thinking they had another day or two to leave. Maybe she thought she'd convince others that they needed to reconsider what they were doing and "behave" like people with morals. Well after viewing that horrid BET Awards on the premise of a MJ tribute I realized how indecent some people can be. Just like those left at S&G.
I think I can reasonably assume we've been issued a warning, those of us who still consider ourselves to be "decent" and "normal". We've been warned to not engage with those we may consider friends, family members or anyone else who can't or won't conform to a minimum standard of decency. Black women have been getting an Orange Alert for quite some time about limiting themselves to males who share similar features but are shells of what men are supposed to be. Many of us have not listened. So there's a reason why the out of wedlock birth rate is inching closer 80% (yes!), our HIV rate is the highest, the majority have not married (for those that wanted to) and many of us are not living but struggling. If we're not living that statistic we might still be diminishing our quality of life by being less than so as to appease a weak man or not expanding our options like traveling outside the country, going for that next degree or even considering all of our orientation options.
So some of us have to do a better job at discerning who's wearing the mask of illusion and is not our ally. Especially if we're trying to be more cognizant of these things. Some women are already lost because they'd insist on staying back in Gomorrah. Lot's wife may have been weeping for them and thought she was safely out. We know what happened. Those looking out for our best interests may not even know us but their good advice could be the difference between our survival (with a high quality life) or our death (a life of desperation or having it cut short).
**I also want to specify with a certain but lessening sadness that I am mostly referring to African-American males. See if we're going to keep it real that needs to be clarified. If we as the US descendants of those enslaved paved the way for other blacks around the world to benefit from the struggles of our ancestors want that properly acknowledged I can't gloss over what has become glaringly obvious either. Besides they already know it so we're not fooling anyone but ourselves here. Again, I didn't say ALL so pay attention. We have to speak the whole truth and nothing but the truth if things are to ever improve. Of course that ship has sailed and it's best to save yourself.**
Leave and don't look back!
19 comments:
I thought I could have a reasonable conversation with the equivalent of psychopaths. Although we were discussing one writer's column insulting a tennis champion it was really about how some black men just want to bash black women (some they don't even know) for pleasure. What normal man does that? The answer is: that's not the normal behavior of a man. I will not make that same mistake again. At least I hope not. Its funny how trying to be social, reasoned and an otherwise normal woman who connects with other human beings can lead you astray. Faith
Peace, and blessings Faith:
I’ve been inter-culturally married for 7 years now. My husband told me that his people ( LOL those statements) when they pursue marriage that their method is the following:
First -Start with your OWN family cousins, distant cousins ( not advocating that by the way)
If you can’t find anyone then you…
Secondly-Start with your OWN village ( our equivalent would be neighborhood)
If you can’t find anyone then you…
Thirdly, Start with your OWN Nation
If you can’t find anyone then you…
Fourthly, Go to the world
It’s common knowledge with his tribe that if you immigrate, and have lived in that nation for a certain period of time to find a woman from that nation whose background ( religion, class, etc is similar to yours) or take the risk of marrying a girl from back home who may become someone else different after you marry her.
My husband and I have fellowshipped with many other inter-culturally married couples through the years and I’ve never heard any of them ever speak poorly of their country women. EVER. I swear by God. I’ve also dinned with many other inter-culturally married people in my life, and I’ve never heard any of the Pakistani, Arab, Malaysian, Hispanic, African, men say negative things about their country women. In fact, I’ve usually hear them talk up their country women.
Also faith, other groups of men DO notice the family problems of black people. Allot of these men won’t say so out loud but once in the company of trusted friends, they do speak about it, and from a position of not only disdain ( especially seeing hungry black kids in the USA)but for compassion for the women. I’ve never heard them sit up there and exclaim: “ she needs to take her behind to work” “ she’s not qualified she doesn’t have a degree” “ she’s fat and ugly” or
“ she’s like a man and beats his obligations out of him.” I’m not sure that modern black men realize this but other groups of men don’t abdicate their obligations, and duties if their women don’t jump on a treadmill of corporate climbing, and Vogue prances.
I’ve seen unattractive, overweight, uneducated, and emotionally women married to men who didn’t check out of reality because of her condition. I’m not at all advocating that BW do this but I can no longer remain silent about my observations and experiences any more.
Thank you.
Sister Sister, Miriam: Welcome and thank you for providing that detail. We need to know this and hear about it. I'm actually going to modify my post to make the distinction.
Hi-
You Stated: As another astute blogger noted when God told Lot and his family to leave Sodom & Gomorrah He warned them not to look back. Lot's wife didn't listen. As a kid I used to laugh at the concept of a woman literally turning into a pillar of salt not recognizing the symbolism. It was very telling that it was a woman who looked back.
I remember seeing a special about salt and how precious it is and how necessary it is to sustain LIFE itself. It IS a very highly valued flavoring/spice. Adds something to that story about Lot's wife and the correlation to bw doesn't it?
http://www.mortonsalt.com/saltfacts/salt_history.htm
Hi Faith (waves)!
Like you, I realized that one cannot have a reasonable conversation with a DBR BM. When I was in my "trying to understand and explain" mode, I would calmly present rational arguments to counter what they were saying.
They weren't having it. You could tell they weren't even TRYING to hear me or what others had to say... and if we had anything to say, we were simply "argumentative angry black women."
I've been in situations where I'm not even TALKING about BM or WW, and a BM will say (based on something innocuous that I say), that's why BM are dating WW. Or a BM has told me when I spoke up about ill treatment by him that "maybe he should go get a WW."
Luckily, my "reasoning" period ended about 4-5 years ago. I realized that these men simply HATE black women. When someone HATES black women, they are looking for others that share that sentiment... they are not trying to get past their hate, so anything that BW say to "defend" themselves is futile. That's when it's time for BW to simply run and never look back.
I am currently dating a white male professor. We've had some discussions about this, and he told me that some of his black male friends in the past have said that they don't date black women. He was surprised by this and just shrugged his shoulders. (Thank goodness he was not so weak-minded as to let that influence his own dating choices... well, I wouldn't be with him if he did!)
But my big question was, why did these black men feel the need to say this about black women to this random white man? As far as I know, these BM are not my partner's good friends. They are acquaintances. If they were talking about dating, WHY did they feel the need to tell this white man that they didn't date black women?
It's hate. Hate of BW, hate of themselves, attempts to suck up to the mainstream (poorly)... who knows? I have had other white men tell me the same thing, that black men have told them that they don't like black women... but said DBR men don't realize how foolish they look in the end, because the white men they "share" this with also recognize that they seem to chase ANYTHING with white skin, which makes them look like self-hating fools.
But, like you've said... I don't look back. I am continually divesting and living my life to fulfill myself ONLY.
So many of those DBR BM will try as hard as they can to convince you that they aren't. They lie to themselves, saying that they are happy, confident individuals and that it's you who has the *problem.*
Thank you so much for this post and for always being truthfully and authentically yourself.
It's time that we develop the skills to be able to see past their masks so that we can move on to live fruitful, productive lives without their dram impacting us.
Aiesha
Enigma: Thanks for the link! We would actually die if we didn't have enough salt in our bodies, so I do know how important it is. The mining an trade of salt built the fortunes of nations. Even now despite it being common, fleur de sel is not cheap compared to regular table salt. I find it actually quite beautiful to look at pink or grey salt.
Lisa99: Again I can't even begin to understand the mind of these men who walk among us but are so full of animosity for us. It is the truest measure of how weak they are. Was this a weakness always present? I don't know and that make for a great sociology paper (of course it couldn't be stated plainly that's what it's about).
Aiesha: Welcome and thank you! I really am trying to be my most authentic self. Writing this blog and interacting with other informed women bloggers has done more for helping me realize that anything else I've done this past year. I hope to continue growing and being able to share my journey with you all.
Faith,
My apologies, I just realized I didn’t capitalize your name the first time!
“But my big question was, why did these black men feel the need to say this about black women to this random white man? As far as I know, these BM are not my partner's good friends. They are acquaintances. If they were talking about dating, WHY did they feel the need to tell this white man that they didn't date black women?” Lisa99
I’d been somewhat socially isolated as I’d limited my social environment to people in my own faith community( I also cut off all sorts of social media). I had no idea that black woman/girl bashing was transpiring on such large scale for so long. In my own faith community skin shade racism, and black woman/girl bashing was almost like a sixth pillar of Islam if you ask me. My personal experience demonstrated to me that it was across the board in both the all black congregations and the mixed congregations. I remember attending PUBLIC marriage seminars, and lectures by so called MAINSTREAM Muslim clerics where black men were open decrying that we are unfit, unworthy, and unnecessary—that we should be ignored. I’ve seen other men from other groups react in many ways:
1- One white infamous Muslim male blogger told other white Muslims that black women who were looking to marry them were only looking for a meal ticket.
2- The same infamous white Muslim male blogger also in another post repeatedly emphasized the black women are fat/overweight.
3- One black Muslim male married to a non-black Muslim woman allowed black men to come on his forum, and open bash black women for problems that didn’t even originate with them
I’d say that it appears that DBR are trying to not just stomp us into the ground but KILL or suppress our will to survive. FOR ME, this is MORE than about marriage/procreation—that behavior is going to affect our educational, economic, and social opportunities if we don’t do four ourselves.
Best of luck to you Lisa
I'm sorry that y'all are in so much pain but it's just good to express it. That's cathartic.
One of things that I think many of y'all are missing about the current disdain that so many AA males are showing for AA women is that it's NOT a NEW feeling they have. The feelings have always been there in a large number of those males. AA males did not have any choice before, but to "sweet talk" AA women, but if you read much of the literature of AAs, you will clearly see the pattern that AA men, as a group, have never had much "love" for AA women.
Many AA women like to romanticize that relationship and talk about how "our" men used to love us so much, but I've not seen much evidence of that in the literature at all. Instead they desperately NEEDED AA women in order to draw breath in or inhale and exhale or to live. There were exceptions based on various factors, of course, but what I've seen is a pattern where AA men have pretty much always ridden AA women like mules. AA women just found excuses for a lot of those males and gave them 'de evil wm' pass' just like many AA women still do.
None of what we're seeing these days is actually NEW. Many AA women are still loyal because that loyalty is based on an old model and many AA men are venomous because that's based on an old model too. Some AA males still cling to AA women for that "need" reason and some of them even do so while spewing venom on us at the same time.
There's a difference between "loving" and clinging to a woman because you'll die otherwise and loving her because you truly believe she's to be cherished and adored. The first is not a love you can count on when the need disappears. If the love and respect for AA women had been real, it would never have disappeared so fast and without a trace. Humans don't operate like that. Remember, many of our ancestors were literally in life and death struggle on a daily basis. Much of the past interactions was based on that basic need for safety and survival.
Many AA men don't believe they need us anymore to survive, and this is why they're talking so big and bad these days. IMO, I think AA women should be grateful that they're showing how they really feel. This truth is showing AA women that they never had what they thought they had. It was an illusion. So AA women haven't actually lost anything mainly but a dream. Y'all need not grieve the loss of an illusion.
I know that's hard to face, but if this is not faced and brutally communicated to younger bw, tens/hundreds of thousands of young black girls are dying, will die or have their lives blighted in other ways--pursuing an illusion. We don't need to use 15 trillion words to get it across to these girls and women to "Stop Dreaming" and either "mate out or die out."
AA women EXCEL at communicating. We need to get this message moving through the grapevine and FAST.
Evia: THANK YOU! You have no idea how many women you have helped. I am upset and it's about the very concept versus experiencing a DBR in my personal off-line life. If more AA women knew this from the get-go I can imagine the number of lives that would have been saved or been so much more fulfilled. So I do know I've lost time I can't get back from being mislead to operate under a false assumption, no let's call it what it is: A BLATANT LIE!! Because even as I'm processing this I'm thinking: "Faith you can't just assume all AA BM are like this you have to find out first." Again, if I have to deal with 15-20 to get to the 2-4 who are decent why should I even bother. Anyway...that's how I feel right now. I've had a shock to my system despite thinking I KNEW BETTER. I'd say most of us are walking around in a cloud haze of deception.
With a few exceptions I generally don't talk to men online, period. I've been online since 1996, and it's been my experience that it's almost impossible to carry on a decent conversation with many of the men here. I have some friends that I've made over a very long period of time, but I could count them on one hand, and they've EARNED my respect.
When I posted on my blog about the foolishness of women taking romantic advice from men they swarmed my blog like berserkers. I didn't engage them, and I didn't post their posts.
You can't talk to these people, they're not interested in any real dialogue, just more fodder for their "I hate black wimmin" campaign. They're always shocked when I make it clear that I don't care. Hate whoever you want to hate, I've been divested since the early 1990s.
First of all THANK YOU for this marvelous addition to the growing list of BW empowerment blogs that are MUST reads, and definitely making a difference in the lives of untold numbers of sisters.
Although it's probably hard for most BW to accept (due to conditioning), it's absolutely true that a very large and growing percentage of BM are simply worthless.
Not good for anything. Damaged, deranged, and dangerous to the psychological well being (and sometimes physical well being) of BW and black girls.
Non repairable.
BW who need to, really should try completing this mourning process once and for all.
Because IMO only AFTER that dream (that was ONLY fed to BW which should have made BW suspect something was up since it was only targeted to them) dies (mass black unity, black love, etc.) can BW move on and up to a healthy and normal way of relating to the world and the men in it.
The "bc" will NEVER EVER experience the health and normality between genders that most members of non black communities experience and take for granted.
That's just the way it is. And time wasted mourning a past that was never completely right to begin with (there has ALWAYS been a color hierarchy within the "community" with damaged self-hating black males placing archetypical BW on the bottom) is just plain STUPID.
Many if not most BM will ALWAYS hold BW - especially BLACK black women (dark-skinned stereotypically West African appearanced) in contempt, because she is a reminder of HIS blackness.
And DBRBM don't want to be reminded of what they consider inferior.
They don't want to be reminded of themselves. Because they equate their blackness with inferiority.
Weakness. Being conquered.
Because they were in the subservient position (which psychologically speaking is considered female) to WM and other lighter men (Arabs) for centuries.
Most STILL fill they are under "the white man's boot".
BM have to depend on "white society" (government, banks, hospitals, employment, etc.) for everything.
And many still feel like they're in this childlike state when in relationships with BW.
This bothers them to say the least.
Yet, they could create a TRUE working black co-culture IF they really wanted to.
Slavery is over and no one is stopping them now. They could deprogram themselves and learn how to act normally IF they wanted to.
But that takes WORK. And it's EASIER to sit on your a** and blame the white man, the black woman, and everything and everybody else.
Plus the desire for positive change and normality is simply NOT THERE.
Basically, BM have a lot of pent up rage that is centuries old. And BW remind DBRBM of their inadequacy.
On the global stage - compared to non BM - many BM (especially AA BM) simply don't measure up when it comes to fulfilling their responsibilities.
As husbands, fathers, and contributing members of society.
And it's their fault they don't.
This hatred DBRBM display towards BW is a sorry attempt at a COVER UP.
They mistakingly believe if they direct enough lies and venom at BW (which only makes them look even MORE WEAK and cowardly in the rest of the worlds eyes) that will take attention away from their OWN inadequacies and FAILURES as men.
It won't.
And they're truly digging their own graves because EVERY DAY more and more BW are waking up to the truth.
And if ENOUGH BW wake up to the truth, their behinds are DOOMED.
Onward and upwards ladies. Onwards and upwards NEVER looking back.
"The "bc" will NEVER EVER experience the health and normality between genders that most members of non black communities experience and take for granted."
CORRECTION. NEVER EVER experience the health and normality between genders IN THE SAME NUMBERS that most members of non black communities experience and take for granted.
It's all a numbers game in the end. When you INCREASE the number of quality men from the GLOBAL community regardless of "race" that you're coming in contact with, you can't help increase the likelihood of finding the right compatible match.
It's just basic math.
YES there is still black love on an individual basis (my parents have been happily married for decades and most of the BW in my family have had successful intraracial relationships) BUT that small number is not putting a dent into that 70% single rate.
I just wanted to clear that up...
1. I don't tell you this enough but, dope blog... always a great read.
inspiring as well (did i ever say that?)
2. I dislike the Lot analogy. here is why: when the townspeople came to his house to "know" the angels, he offered up his daughters to be raped. Very, very telling. Another reason why I drink when i read the Bible...
3. you are right, it is so easy to get caught up in the circus. I just finished reading Joker One, a book about a Marine officer in Iraq. Very good. he said something that really hit me. He said we should focus on those that are alive since we tend to dwell on those who are dead and it consumes us.
4. I spent most of my adult life "resurrecting the dead." my wife often wonders how i still do it. its hard work and the more I learn and try to teach, it gets tougher. Like many of my gender, I am a recovering misogynist. So it ain't easy.
5. I think the best solution is that men have to check men at the door about sexism, male privilege and patriarchy because when we hear it from a woman, we want to put her in her place because we feel that we can. I have seen the difference when a man points out sexism versus a woman. Although that is sexist in itself, a man should respect a woman's opinion from the door, i see that it works best.
Faith let me start by saying I feel your pain. There is nothing worse than writing something in good faith in the hopes of having a legitimate conversation, only to be invaded by a bunch of trolls. It is the equivalent of spitting on your work.
I have been drawn in more times than I can tell you. I will say that sometimes it is best to disengage for your own mental health. Many see the internet as an opportunity to let loose their inner idiot rather than sharing an experience that could help them grow as a person.
Roslyn: Well I'm rethinking my online interactions now but certain social media sites are vital and I have met a lot of great people. So I will put filters in place.
Felicia: I think your comment may have still been correct without the adjustment as it pertains to the younger generations. My youngest sister (21) is convinced there are no good men out there but she only dates DBRBM. Despite all of the attempts at helping her, talking to her, suggesting therapy, whatever I give up. The cynicism amongst the younger black girls & women is frightening. She is completely brainwashed & I don't get it. I fear too many were silent when they needed to be yelling from the rooftops.
Brother OMi: Well you are my male voice of reason and I appreciate it. Yes #5 is the way to go & I don't like stepping in but I saw these messages but no men were responding and I had to say something. Next time I will ignore them. I've had my say though and a cathartic moment. None of us are perfect but some ppl don't even want to give any concessions abt anything. It's that same mentality that has so many blacks clinging to Obama without enough criticism. maybe I'll feel differently tomorrow but I honestly feel sane, productive black ppl are an endangered species.
Renee: You know I don't have a problem with it being a troll experience from a blog post. This is the larger issue of the mass dysfunction of an increasing majority of black ppl with black men at the forefront. An 82% out of wedlock birth rate (not one of informed choice w/a partner; lgbt relationship w/no legal protections; not a celebrity or wealthy person w/resources) should be considered a NATIONAL DISGRACE. After all of the posts at WAOD I didn't even feel this way. I kept thinking it was "other" black ppl, I can't quite describe how I feel right now. Yes disengaging is good, but these things need to be said. Other females need to be warned. You are personally divested and are thriving. The majority of black women in this country apparently are not. I want to change that, Thanks for the encouragement and advice.
Faith,
All I can say is that I know. I went through the same grieving process once I woke up.
OMG, the African-American OOW rate is 82% now?! Lord have mercy.
I can't add much to what the rest of you wonderful ladies AND gentleman have added.
_______________________
SisterSeeking/Miriam,
Thank you so much for sharing that VITAL bit of inside information about how your husband's culture works.
It's critical for more of us to see and hear CONCRETE, LIVING examples that show that life can be VERY different and much better among healthier others!
Peace, blessings and solidarity.
Time for some to "harden their hearts, swallow their tears" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=du9iX7Zzgs8 (for those who have any shred of sympathy left for the sociopathic and destructive.)
When I think of stories like these, I think about "old school" black men like Dubois, who stood up for black women when whites would tear them down. Now, instead, as you have been saying, whites don't have to do it. Instead, the men of the group will. Dubois wrote the following in his book Darkwater:
dark and mysterious beauty of midnight eyes, crumpled hair, and soft, full-featured faces -- is perhaps more to me than to you, because I was born to its warm and subtle spell; but their worth is yours as well as mine. No other women on earth could have emerged from the hell of force and temptation which once engulfed and still surrounds black women in America with half the modesty and womanliness that they retain. I have always felt like bowing myself before them in all abasement, searching to bring some tribute to these long-suffering victims, these burdened sisters of mine, whom the world, the wise, white world, loves to affront and ridicule and wantonly to insult. I have known the women of many lands and nations, -- I have known and seen and lived beside them, but none have I known more sweetly feminine, more unswervingly loyal, more desperately earnest, and more instinctively pure in body and in soul than the daughters of my black mothers. This, then, -- a little thing -- to their memory and inspiration.
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